The Insider Interview - Dan Wildfong and Ron Vogel
Texas Brahmas coaches share insight into recruiting
I had the opportunity to spend a couple of hours yesterday with Dan and Ron at the NYTEX Sports Centre. We talked about a number of topics, one of which was recruiting. I thought it might be interesting to get an insight into the the recruiting process, which is well under way. From what I know, the Brahmas look to have another championship caliber team this season - just what is needed to defend the President's Cup.
Here is part of our conversation, starting with Dan Wildfong.
Q: After the championship win, how quickly did you go into recruiting mode?
A: I got a question the other day about what was the difference of winning a championship as a player and winning a championship as a coach. If you win as a player, you’re kind of done. Once we won, we enjoyed that night but Ronnie and I were discussing the fact that we were behind already because other teams had already started recruiting. So, it started right when we were done but we try and make contact with players – like college players – a lot earlier than just the end of the season. We try to get a good database and then we just work on trying to build relationships with them.
Q: I know you have a lot of resources but are there any out of the ordinary ways to get in touch with prospects?
A: We use a lot of 411 sometimes (laughing). But now we’re getting a pretty good database of players so we’ll call a player that’s played with them and we’ll get a hold of them that way or use Facebook – it’s a resource because all the kids are on that now. We just try and use as many connections as possible.
Q: As well, I’m sure you are using your existing players as a resource to get in touch of some of your prospects…
A: Yeah, that’s for sure. Obviously, you go to Hockeydb.com and see someone that Kinnunen’s played with then call Kinnunen and he’ll try to get in touch or get a number. Our scout up in Canada helps us out a lot – getting numbers through…I don’t know how (laughing). He knows everyone and seems to have everyone’s number. It’s obviously one of the tough things to do, is tracking the guy down.
Q: This off-season, with the number of teams that have suspended or ceased operations, there are a lot more quality players and especially players with experience in the Central Hockey League available. Have you found that to be a benefit or is the competition for those guys pretty fierce?
A: I think our league’s going to be – I think you’re going to see the best hockey because there’s not as many guys going to Europe and there’s not as many teams, so the quality of players that every organization signs is just outstanding. I think this is going to be a wonderful year for the CHL. I think you’re going to see really tight games; I can tell you, I guarantee there’s going to be a smaller difference if there was much of a smaller difference this year. It’s going to be an exciting year, I think. Lots of talented players are going to be playing in this league and hopefully we see a lot more movement too with guys getting called up.
Q: Do you run into situations where you think you’ve got a guy on the hook and then he turns left and decides to go a different way?
A: All the time.
Q: And how frustrating is that?
A: Very frustrating. But that’s part of the job. You’re going to have your highs and lows. It’s just like playing in the season. This is our recruiting season. We talk to our players about it. It’s one day at a time; one phone call at a time. You can’t worry too much if you lose a guy, there’s always a new player around the corner. We try and stay real positive. We know we’re going to lose guys to other teams. We’re going to lose guys to other leagues. But I feel like we’re getting a lot of younger players coming to camp this year as well. Good quality players, so I’m excited to see what they’re about. This is their time to come in and showcase their talent at the pro level. They put up great numbers in college but its a little different game in the pros and I expect them to do well and have a good transition.
Q: How is Making the Cut shaping up at this point?
A: We’re a little lower in numbers but I kind of expected that just because our first year, it was a new franchise and a new team, basically. So a lot of guys are looking and they do a lot of research on the computer and they say oh wow, a new team, I can try out for that team; I can make that team – they have no players. Well, after you win, then they’re thinking OK well, I’m just on a bubble of not getting calls from coaches but I’m not going to be able to go to a team that’s already won it all because they probably have a lot of guys coming back.
I did it originally when he had a lot of guys locally – they were asking me Dan, can I try out for your team? My dream was always to play professional hockey. Our original thought was yes, let them try out. Let them come to Making the Cut and we’ll get two positions but I think now it’s definitely different.
I think later on in the summer; I know it’s getting late but in another two weeks, we’ll see more sign ups…it’s a coaches market where before it was kind of a players market. Spots are filling up quick. There’s not many spots out there left. A lot of coaches are done doing a lot of their signing. I think players are going to start panicking a little bit more and maybe this is their only shot. If we can find a diamond in the rough, it’ll serve its purpose. I think it did last year with Ross (Rouleau). It’s kind of an inspirational story – someone coming in from Making the Cut, he came in, made the team, got cut and then came back and won a championship.
Q: Do you think having the Allen Americans just down the highway is making the local player market a little bit more competitive as well?
A: I think it’s great; it’s going to be a great little rivalry between us. I think you could have five teams in the Dallas Metroplex. It really wouldn’t affect us that much.
And now, the conversation continues with Ron Vogel.
Q: When you joined the Brahmas as an assistant coach, it was pretty much beyond the recruiting phase. This off-season is your first experience going at it full throttle. Describe to me what the experience has been like for you.
A: It’s been a great experience. I’ve been through it as a player on the other end. Last year, I didn’t deal with it very much. I really enjoy the process. There’s some things you don’t like and there’s some things you don’t like dealing with like negotiating – when it comes down to money, that’s one of the things you don’t enjoy but getting to know someone and doing your homework on a player, calling coaches…you get to network with a lot of people and its funny how small the world is because it always comes back to everybody knows somebody – it’s like the six degrees of separation. But its’ great finding out, like character traits of guys you’re going after. What kind of people they are in talking to their families, their coaches and professors – whatever we can do to find the little things that separate them from the other guy. We do make a ton of calls – you know it’s not just calling players and saying hey, we want you. We really do our homework.
Q: For any given player, how many kinds of people are you trying to get information from?
A: In so many cases, we’re talking about players that we’ve never seen play before. You can tell by their stats or not even that; some guys have good years and you know, they feel they should have played better, other people think they weren’t playing up to their potential; you’ve got guys that have had poor years. You can call a coach and they say he was the hardest worker day in and day out but it just wasn’t his year. But on character basis, you’re talking to coaches, players, teammates…you know, what kind of teammate are they? As a coach talking to another coach, how did he play for you? His preparation…did he show up at every practice? Did he work hard? Did he work on improving himself? Just a ton of questions we ask, trying to find out who that player is along with their skill. What kind of role they played with the team. What their assets are, what things they can work on…that’s pretty much to find out their character and the way they play their position. You know, talking to family too. It’s not always a key ingredient. Especially when you played against someone; you might hate playing against him but as a teammate, he might be the perfect teammate and you don’t see that all the time. Normally word travels fast enough and enough people know players out there from our current player and past players where we get great references on the guys we bring in.
Q: Do you run into the situation where statistically, you have a player who you would like to have but then when you are looking into his background, you think this is a player we don’t want to bring on board due to character issues?
A: There are certain players I guess…it’s in different categories. You do your homework, you know, you hear one thing once and you give the guy the benefit of the doubt. Then you have to dig a little bit deeper and if the guy shows some character traits that we’re not happy with, then we go to another reference and if it’s the same thing, then yeah and if we’ve been talking to a player – you have to be honest with the guys because this is their living and we want to bring in the best guys and you just have to let them know that we don’t feel that they’ll fit into our program. But there are guys that do get a second chance that we do bring in that might not have otherwise had that chance and they do well. Every body has a history and background and people do mess up when they’re younger and make bad decisions…but on the benefit of the doubt, that’s one reason we’re doing our homework. We try to find out their best qualities and what their goal is and if it’s a common goal that fits within our system.
A: I got a question the other day about what was the difference of winning a championship as a player and winning a championship as a coach. If you win as a player, you’re kind of done. Once we won, we enjoyed that night but Ronnie and I were discussing the fact that we were behind already because other teams had already started recruiting. So, it started right when we were done but we try and make contact with players – like college players – a lot earlier than just the end of the season. We try to get a good database and then we just work on trying to build relationships with them.
Q: I know you have a lot of resources but are there any out of the ordinary ways to get in touch with prospects?
A: We use a lot of 411 sometimes (laughing). But now we’re getting a pretty good database of players so we’ll call a player that’s played with them and we’ll get a hold of them that way or use Facebook – it’s a resource because all the kids are on that now. We just try and use as many connections as possible.
Q: As well, I’m sure you are using your existing players as a resource to get in touch of some of your prospects…
A: Yeah, that’s for sure. Obviously, you go to Hockeydb.com and see someone that Kinnunen’s played with then call Kinnunen and he’ll try to get in touch or get a number. Our scout up in Canada helps us out a lot – getting numbers through…I don’t know how (laughing). He knows everyone and seems to have everyone’s number. It’s obviously one of the tough things to do, is tracking the guy down.
Q: This off-season, with the number of teams that have suspended or ceased operations, there are a lot more quality players and especially players with experience in the Central Hockey League available. Have you found that to be a benefit or is the competition for those guys pretty fierce?
A: I think our league’s going to be – I think you’re going to see the best hockey because there’s not as many guys going to Europe and there’s not as many teams, so the quality of players that every organization signs is just outstanding. I think this is going to be a wonderful year for the CHL. I think you’re going to see really tight games; I can tell you, I guarantee there’s going to be a smaller difference if there was much of a smaller difference this year. It’s going to be an exciting year, I think. Lots of talented players are going to be playing in this league and hopefully we see a lot more movement too with guys getting called up.
Q: Do you run into situations where you think you’ve got a guy on the hook and then he turns left and decides to go a different way?
A: All the time.
Q: And how frustrating is that?
A: Very frustrating. But that’s part of the job. You’re going to have your highs and lows. It’s just like playing in the season. This is our recruiting season. We talk to our players about it. It’s one day at a time; one phone call at a time. You can’t worry too much if you lose a guy, there’s always a new player around the corner. We try and stay real positive. We know we’re going to lose guys to other teams. We’re going to lose guys to other leagues. But I feel like we’re getting a lot of younger players coming to camp this year as well. Good quality players, so I’m excited to see what they’re about. This is their time to come in and showcase their talent at the pro level. They put up great numbers in college but its a little different game in the pros and I expect them to do well and have a good transition.
Q: How is Making the Cut shaping up at this point?
A: We’re a little lower in numbers but I kind of expected that just because our first year, it was a new franchise and a new team, basically. So a lot of guys are looking and they do a lot of research on the computer and they say oh wow, a new team, I can try out for that team; I can make that team – they have no players. Well, after you win, then they’re thinking OK well, I’m just on a bubble of not getting calls from coaches but I’m not going to be able to go to a team that’s already won it all because they probably have a lot of guys coming back.
I did it originally when he had a lot of guys locally – they were asking me Dan, can I try out for your team? My dream was always to play professional hockey. Our original thought was yes, let them try out. Let them come to Making the Cut and we’ll get two positions but I think now it’s definitely different.
I think later on in the summer; I know it’s getting late but in another two weeks, we’ll see more sign ups…it’s a coaches market where before it was kind of a players market. Spots are filling up quick. There’s not many spots out there left. A lot of coaches are done doing a lot of their signing. I think players are going to start panicking a little bit more and maybe this is their only shot. If we can find a diamond in the rough, it’ll serve its purpose. I think it did last year with Ross (Rouleau). It’s kind of an inspirational story – someone coming in from Making the Cut, he came in, made the team, got cut and then came back and won a championship.
Q: Do you think having the Allen Americans just down the highway is making the local player market a little bit more competitive as well?
A: I think it’s great; it’s going to be a great little rivalry between us. I think you could have five teams in the Dallas Metroplex. It really wouldn’t affect us that much.
And now, the conversation continues with Ron Vogel.
Q: When you joined the Brahmas as an assistant coach, it was pretty much beyond the recruiting phase. This off-season is your first experience going at it full throttle. Describe to me what the experience has been like for you.
A: It’s been a great experience. I’ve been through it as a player on the other end. Last year, I didn’t deal with it very much. I really enjoy the process. There’s some things you don’t like and there’s some things you don’t like dealing with like negotiating – when it comes down to money, that’s one of the things you don’t enjoy but getting to know someone and doing your homework on a player, calling coaches…you get to network with a lot of people and its funny how small the world is because it always comes back to everybody knows somebody – it’s like the six degrees of separation. But its’ great finding out, like character traits of guys you’re going after. What kind of people they are in talking to their families, their coaches and professors – whatever we can do to find the little things that separate them from the other guy. We do make a ton of calls – you know it’s not just calling players and saying hey, we want you. We really do our homework.
Q: For any given player, how many kinds of people are you trying to get information from?
A: In so many cases, we’re talking about players that we’ve never seen play before. You can tell by their stats or not even that; some guys have good years and you know, they feel they should have played better, other people think they weren’t playing up to their potential; you’ve got guys that have had poor years. You can call a coach and they say he was the hardest worker day in and day out but it just wasn’t his year. But on character basis, you’re talking to coaches, players, teammates…you know, what kind of teammate are they? As a coach talking to another coach, how did he play for you? His preparation…did he show up at every practice? Did he work hard? Did he work on improving himself? Just a ton of questions we ask, trying to find out who that player is along with their skill. What kind of role they played with the team. What their assets are, what things they can work on…that’s pretty much to find out their character and the way they play their position. You know, talking to family too. It’s not always a key ingredient. Especially when you played against someone; you might hate playing against him but as a teammate, he might be the perfect teammate and you don’t see that all the time. Normally word travels fast enough and enough people know players out there from our current player and past players where we get great references on the guys we bring in.
Q: Do you run into the situation where statistically, you have a player who you would like to have but then when you are looking into his background, you think this is a player we don’t want to bring on board due to character issues?
A: There are certain players I guess…it’s in different categories. You do your homework, you know, you hear one thing once and you give the guy the benefit of the doubt. Then you have to dig a little bit deeper and if the guy shows some character traits that we’re not happy with, then we go to another reference and if it’s the same thing, then yeah and if we’ve been talking to a player – you have to be honest with the guys because this is their living and we want to bring in the best guys and you just have to let them know that we don’t feel that they’ll fit into our program. But there are guys that do get a second chance that we do bring in that might not have otherwise had that chance and they do well. Every body has a history and background and people do mess up when they’re younger and make bad decisions…but on the benefit of the doubt, that’s one reason we’re doing our homework. We try to find out their best qualities and what their goal is and if it’s a common goal that fits within our system.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
It's really amazing to consider the amount of work that goes into the off-season; another season of competition in and of itself, with coaches around the league competing for players to build and re-build their teams. From what I've seen and what I know, the Brahmas organization continues to improve and this season's roster will be better than ever.
Be patient about signing announcements. There are many reasons behind the timing of such things. We're just over 10 weeks away from the season opener - seems like an eternity but it will be worth the wait!
Photo Credit: Robert Keith
No comments:
Post a Comment