The Insider Interview - Ron VogelThe Brahmas' assistant coach talks about his role with the team, winning the Cup and preparing to defend it
Q: Do you miss goaltending?
A: I miss it, but I enjoy the challenges of what everyday coaching brings to being part of this organization. Dan’s been unbelievable to learn from; just his presentation in the locker room, his systems, the way he sets everything up from year to year, his passion for the game – he’s a great guy to learn from. Goaltending is definitely a huge part – I miss it, I’ll probably always have that itch, that drive…but I welcome the new challenges. I’m at that part of my life where I was looking for something new. I probably could have played a couple of more years. You know with a family now, I’m looking to pursue higher things in the coaching levels.
We had great goaltenders here last year. They made my job a lot of fun because of their willingness and eagerness to learn and to improve themselves. It was fun to work with them on a daily basis; working on extra things that we didn’t always accomplish in a practice plan. I was really motivated to pass on what I’ve learned to our goaltenders and I’m looking forward to it again this year.
Q: Do you still play at all?
A: I still get out in the men’s league once in a while. I play with a couple of old friends that I know here in the area. It’s fun. I still like to play with competitive shooters...if not, I just become a defenseman or forward that doesn’t like the corners (laughing).
Q: Speaking of goaltending, let’s talk about Brett Jaeger, who has a tremendous work ethic. Compared to other goaltenders I’ve had the opportunity to watch preparing before a game, I’ve never seen someone with the focus or his determination to get out there and do the best that he can. What are your thoughts on him as a goaltender, from a goaltenders’ standpoint?
A: He did an amazing job for us last year. He really stepped up at key times. He played a lot of hockey for us, especially in the playoffs. He’s a true professional, through and through. When he leaves the rink, his job isn’t over. When he’s at home, he studies the game; he works on all the aspects, like you said – preparation; you know, being mentally and physically prepared. That’s where he gets a lot of his success from along with the hard work. He’s willing to put in the extra time on the ice. To be honest, a lot of the time it’s not me asking him to go out, it’s him asking if I’ll go out with him and work with him and he’s just eager to improve every day. Whether it’s mentally or physically; he’s always looking for that edge and his hard work and determination paid off last year. He had a great year and he’s a guy that, coming back, we’re expecting big things and I’m sure he’s expects the same from himself. We go through games that he’s had and he’s like, I could’ve done this and I’ve could’ve done that, where a lot of people would just be like, well, you know, my defenseman was standing in front of me so I couldn’t see the puck. But he’s like, I could’ve done this, I could’ve done that. He’s always looking for ways that he could’ve stopped the puck which, you’re not going to stop every one, but he feels he can do things to stop every puck, and that illustrates the determination in him; that drive to be the best goalie out there.
Q: Yeah, I’ve found that you can go up and congratulate him after a win but pretty much the first thing he’ll say is, well, you know, I had some good blocks, but…there’s always that but. He’s always seems to be thinking of what he could’ve done better…I don’t know if that’s unique but he doesn’t seem like he would ever pat himself on the back, ever.
A: You can tell him that he’s done a great job a bunch…you can’t even count how many games where he made the big save for us, kept us in it…you know, just little things he was doing and you can say great game and all that and he’s still, what could I have done on this and what can I have done on that. He’s always looking for that way to improve and that way to make the next stop and that says a lot about him and his character. A lot of goalies and a lot of people in life in general are like, this is my situation and nothing could be done so I’m just going to deal with it. You know, you can take something and try and learn from it and build on that experience. Mentally, he’s focused but you know, at the end of the game, that’s where he recaps everything and goes through it in his mind, seeing what he saw, whether it’s himself, myself or on the video. He’s always learning, always willing to find that edge to get one step ahead of the next guy.
Q: He was easily one of the top three, maybe top four goalies in the league last season. Does that make it difficult to find another guy to come in when they know they’re going to be the number two to Jaegs?
A: Yeah, it is in a sense but we’re also if we’re looking to bring in a younger guy to compete. You know you’re going to get a guy who’s hungry and wanting to work for those games. Brett’s done a fantastic job; he was unbelievable last year. His expectations of himself and what we expect are going to be the same thing. A lot of things can happen in a season. It is tough to get a commitment from some goalies that think they’re going to be a starter right out of junior hockey or college hockey, which is never the sense. Every team has their go-to guy. They’re looking at him to carry the work load. But a lot of things can happen. Brett can get called up, you know, those kinds of situations where you need a guy who can step in to play. The way that Brett played last year, and if he starts off well again this year, who knows how long is he going to be here or what his situation’s going to be? Our big thing with recruiting is bringing in a guy who will compete and will work on improving himself and the team every day.
Q: I would think that’s a selling point if you’re looking at having a younger guy come in who doesn’t have a lot of experience. The fact that he will have an opportunity to work with one of the best to help him develop…
A: Definitely. From being a goaltender, I know from personal experiences and dealing with other goaltenders, you know between partners and now coaching, that your first year is never smooth as you’d like to be, You’re going from, you know – you’re the big fish in a little pond when you’re playing juniors or in college; you’re a senior, you’re the go-to guy; they’re counting on you. Now you’re coming into the pro ranks and everything’s new – the hockey’s different and you’re stepping up a level. Bringing a young goalie in, you’re behind one of the best, you’ve got a great team in front of you, you’re only going to be able to put up good numbers in a great situation if you’re willing to work with the way that the situation is. You’re not going to play a lot, but when you get your games, you’re going to have to show what you can do and you’ve got a great guy to learn from. As a young guy, that’s an ideal situation, other than if you’re going to a team where you’re going to play every game. Who knows how that teams built around and that’s one thing we like to offer the goalies we’re bringing in – we’re going to expect a lot out of you but you’re going to have a good team in front of you and we’ll go from there.
Q: You came into a situation where Dan had an assistant who was an old friend, a line mate who he played alongside for years and then decided to go in a different direction with his career. From Dan’s account of it, you were able to come in and it was a really smooth transition and he has had great things to say about you. From your standpoint, coming in to that situation, how was it for you coming in and filling the role of assistant coach?
A: Your first day of anything, you’re nervous, you’re anxious; you’re excited about coming in. Dan made my transition easy. He knew a lot about the game and we’re definitely still learning as we go but he knew a lot; he’d been through it for a year as a head coach. He also had the expectations of where he’s bringing in another new guy, whereas it was a learning process for me all over again and now he’s kind of showing me the ropes. He made my transition easy but I was nervous. I was anxious about how the guys would receive me – the expectations, how I’d take everything in. It couldn’t have been a better time for
me to leave, playing the game and to get into coaching. The opportunity to work with Dan, I couldn’t pass it up. He’s a phenomenal guy and he’s a great coach; he just knows how to get his message across to guys and he demands a lot of respect. Again, it was a nervous time in my life because I didn’t know what I was getting into 100% and I hadn’t dealt with a lot of administrative work. When you play, you just go out and you play and you travel and all that but you don’t really know what happens behind the scenes. I think with his help and his patience with me and the million questions that I had throughout the year, we got it done and hopefully it’s a smooth ride again this year.
Q: So, good cop/bad cop…
A: Oh, did he mention that (laughing)?
Q: Yeah, you know I think from the outside, as a new player coming in, you get the impression that Dan is very intense and very intimidating when they first meet him and I think Ronnie Vogel’s the guy you want to go and bar-b-que with and have the kids play by the pool (laughing). You know, if you’ve been around an angry Dan, it’s not a great place to be (bad cop). Ron Vogel may be the good cop who can and present things in a different way, to get what you need out of a player. Tell me a little about how that dynamic works for you guys.
A: Well, in regards to how we deal with the players – he is an intense guy. He’s very passionate about the game and he wears his heart on his sleeve. You can basically tell what kind of mood Dan’s in by looking at him. Back when I played and as a coach, I also have that passion and intensity for hockey. Being a goaltender, I think with a goaltenders frame of mind, you’ve got to let things go a lot quicker. Let’s say you let in a goal – I’ve got to let it go. You basically have to immunize yourself to different situations and then react to what’s happening next. Dealing with players, he does a great job. One of the big things I learned was that he got to know his players, inside and out. Not just how they played for him, but outside the rank. He wanted to know about their families, what makes them tick; what gets guys going…
Q: Is that uncommon, as a player?
A: Yeah, well he’s still young enough where he has that relationship with his players. He gets it; he’s not been out of the game for that long. He gets what they’re going through and he really understands. You don’t always have a perfect situation. You have family issues, you have kids; he gets that. He can relate to that. He relates to the guys on a personal level and he gets to know them. But when its time to crack the whip, he’s great at that. He doesn’t do it a lot but when it has to be done, he does it. You may call it the bad cop but that’s his job – to get the most out of his players. He lets them know when he’s disappointed in them and he lets them know when he’s proud of them. That’s one of his great assets because he does wear his heart on his sleeve. He let’s guys know how he feels.
Getting to know his players, some guys react different to different ways of teaching and to learning. When he has to be hard on some guys, that’s basically where I would say he’s the bad cop and that’s where I come in and try and build the guy back up. If a player was having a tough shift, not working hard enough or not doing the little things right, Dan will let him know. Some guys react differently to certain comments or the way things are said…some guys will take that and say, OK, I’m going out there and going to do this the right way and some guys will be like, well, now Dan’s all mad at me, I don’t know what I’m going to do. That’s where I come in and I’ve got to build them up. You’re doing a great job, you know, let’s keep going here. Some players, he related better to than others and he knew what he could get away with them and how they would respond and then other guys, he had no idea. There are times when the roles were reversed…not too many, but you know, where I got on a guy. I didn’t have to do it very often but when I did, hopefully it hit its mark and I got through to the guy.
When it comes down to it, our job is to get the most out of our guys; to get them to where they want to be. Our guys have a ton of potential and our expectations are high and really, the good cop/bad cop is just the way we relate to them and how we try to get that message through to them where they realize in their own mind what they have to get done and what their job is. There’s a lot of scenarios we could go through, I’m sure (laughing). We talked about it after the fact, after the season and some of them, we had to laugh about. I think it was great. We had great relations with the players and I think Dan really takes his time to get to know the guys as individuals. You don’t always get that from your coaches.
Q: You’re learning a lot and you’re learning from a great teacher. Now that you see what it’s all about, and you see what Dan does, do you think you would like to take on the role of head coach at some point?
A: Yeah definitely. I’m not closing any doors to the future. I don’t know what to expect come next year, tomorrow or next month, but I’m excited to be on board again this year. I think that my learning process isn’t over as a coach and hopefully it will never be over because I’m always looking to learn. Dan’s a great guy to learn from. I feel that if I had to, could I? Probably, but I’m not looking for that right now. I think we have a great thing here together. I really enjoy what I do and working with him. You know, if he decides one day that it’s time for him to move on, I think I’d look for that but for now, I enjoy our chemistry in the office here. If the opportunity came up and it was the right situation at the right time and it was right for my family, I think I would definitely like to experience it. I enjoy teaching. I enjoy passing on what I’ve learned; but I also like what I do as an assistant. I like a lot of my responsibilities. It’s not that I wouldn’t want to take on more but I enjoy doing a lot of the administrative work. I enjoy having the player/assistant coach relationship where sometimes I’m the middleman in between different things. I’m not closing any doors and I definitely would like the challenge to, in the right situation, become a head coach.
Q: Along the same lines, do you think of Craig Minard would make a good assistant coach?
A: Craig definitely would. He knows the game real well. He has that passion. You can see in the locker room the way he leads the team and you know, from my transition too, from a player to a coach, he was great to run things off of. I felt that with him being an older, experienced player…he helped with my transition too. I could run things off him; the D Corps and what we were thinking and that kind of stuff. He’d answer me truthfully and tell me how he felt. It didn’t always go the way – whether he’d agree or disagree – it was our decision at the end of the day, but he’s great to run things off of. He does such a great job in the locker room, helping out with the other players; making sure guys are prepared. He steps up and talks at the right situations and with his knowledge of the game, I can definitely see him as a coach after he’s done playing, but I think he still has that passion (to play). Last year was huge for him, you know, he got that championship. He worked so hard for it …I think he wants to experience it again as a player.
Q: So you have good cop and you have bad cop and then you have Deputy Minzy. Here’s a guy that you, as coaches, can depend on, where maybe you need to send a player in to talk to a guy or maybe he’s going to take care of a situation that comes up on his own. Is that true?
A: Yeah, that’s true. Sometimes we don’t know what goes on in that locker room. What is said, what is done. With all our systems implied and with all the team building we do, I feel that every player in that room has to hold each other accountable for their actions on the ice and off the ice. That’s part of being a part of a team. The things you do doesn’t only affect yourself. You have to think of the bigger picture as a team and the team’s goals. I find that our older leaders are not afraid to say things when they need to be said or they’re not afraid to point the finger back at themselves and hold themselves accountable…a lot of them are great leaders and have been through a lot. We didn’t have any issues last year – they dealt with the locker room just great. We had our points where we had to step in…but as a group, our guys held each other accountable day in and day out. They had expectations of a guy and if a guy wasn’t working hard in practice, they’d let him know. Not in a bad way but just to let him know that hey, he probably had a little bit more to give. Let’s turn it up a notch. Let’s get going here or something like that. Our guys were great at communicating like that. I think bringing in the right guys helps you control that situation too.
Q: I was beside the bench in the final moments of Game Five against Colorado. Mike Vellinga and Ross Rouleau were back there and I was watching the end of the game on your faces rather than on the ice. Give me a sense of what was building up inside of you as the clock ticked down and you were seeing all of your efforts as a coach and as a part of this organization come to fruition?
A: Being my first time of winning a championship, there was a lot of mixed things going through my head. You know, there was still a minute-and-a-half to play and time wouldn’t go quick enough. There was so
many things that I was thinking, but most of all I was happy for the guys around me. They worked extremely hard…you know even the families that are involved; my wife, my daughter – a lot of people sacrifice a lot to have a successful season. Our fans deserved it. We had great support all year. You know, a lot of mixed emotions but I was just watching that clock and making sure I had the right guys out there at the right time. We had our two older guys playing out there and I think it was really special for them.
It was really all kind of surreal because I didn’t quite recognize what we had accomplished. I think it was a couple of days after and we were already hard at work for the upcoming season. You always think you’re going to win this but actually winning it, it’s like pinch me – it’s so surreal. We’d just accomplished what we had set out for from day one. It just doesn’t set in right away. The other thing was, I didn’t know what to do. I’ve never been a champion, what do you do (laughing)? The Cup’s coming and you do all that and then it’s like, you’ve got to get this done and this done. I really enjoyed that night and we can recall a ton of memories from that night thanks to your pictures. It was great. Now you look back on it through photos and you’re like, wow, that was something else.
Looking back, I don’t know if everyone enjoyed it as much as they should have…for me being a first-time winner at this level, a first-time champion, it was like, how do you react? We just did it, I’m pumped, I’m jumping up and down and then you just sit back and you kind of…you know, I caught myself…I think it was with Jacobsen’s goal and I usually, you know after a goal, I’m like OK, what do we need to do in the next shift, but that was one of the times I sat back and just listened to the crowd. That’s one thing, being in the zone and all that, we’re on the bench getting things ready and you don’t hear those things. You know, you can hear the crowd when they get going but you’re focused on what are job is, what our goal is – when you really sit back to listen to the reaction from everyone, the fans, the players – it was unbelievable. It was something I was excited to be a part of; its something that you know, you’ll take with you for the rest of your days.
Q: So the day after winning the championship, you go from being the league champion to being the defending champion. Now you’ve got to defend this Cup that you guys have worked so hard to obtain. The team that you are putting together, the guys that you have coming back and the new players that you are bringing in, is truly a team that could win it again. What are your feelings on defending the cup and with the guys that you have coming back and makeup of the league now that you can defend this Cup?
A: You know, we have a great group of guys returning. You don’t know 100% how things are going to work out but we can’t control that between injuries and players and all that. We’ve got a group right now – if we have to make changes we will – that will try and defend the cup. If we weren’t happy with what we have coming in right now, I probably wouldn’t be sitting here, I’d probably be on the phone. Dan’s worked extremely hard and I think that’s one of the things I got from him too is that our job started for the next season the night we finished. We’ve just got to take it from the first day of training camp to the last game of the year and make the proper adjustments along the road. We’re definitely confident with the guys we have and how the guys prepare through the summer and what they do to get themselves into shape. The great thing about bringing the core group back is they know how hard it was to win it. Once you know and realize how much you have to do to be successful – it doesn’t come easier, it gets harder. If you’ve been there, you want to keep that. You want to keep the Cup. We might have slipped by teams last year; in the first year, I know Dan talks about slipping by teams because you’re unknown, but now we’re going to be out getting everyone’s best game. Everybody’s going to look and think, we’ve got the Brahmas tonight – they get geared up to play top teams…It’s just the nature of an athlete when you’re playing against a top team, you’re going to prepare differently from playing a bottom of the pack team.
This year, I feel the league is going to be strong. We’ve lost a couple of teams and we gained a couple, but I think it’s going to be strong – there are a lot of players still available out there. There are a lot of good players at this level. I just feel our league is still building to be a successful league. I think every team, talent-wise is just getting stronger. You see some of the players other teams are signing and you’re like, oh man, you know, there are just a lot of good players out there. It’s going to be a real competitive season. That brings a lot of excitement and we do have a lot of expectations.
Photo Credit: Robert Keith
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